Talk:Traps

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Revision as of 16:46, 26 February 2009 by Grexx (talk | contribs) (→‎Interesting discussion on boards: update)

Weapon Template

FYI, I have created a Weapon template to add consistency (and yes, a tiny bit of flash) to weapon info pages. Comments are welcome. --Brossow 17:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

  • Much better. Can we have another header at the bottom of the box for the official descriptions? Users keep insisting on having them in the articles, but sticking them at the top in italics doesn't seem very professional to me. Also, can we color-code each title box to reflect Power Types? Maybe keep the current color for Physical, white text on black or a green color for Shadow, and a red color for Tactical (best I could think of from looking at each symbol). Revengeance 15:51, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
    • If we move the description to the infobox, then (1) the box will be huge for some weapons and, more importantly, (2) for some weapons it will leave virtually no page content. IMHO. -- B.Rossow talkcontr 17:08, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Is there a more presentable style of formatting we can apply to them, then? Or a separate box altogether? Revengeance 20:00, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
        • More presentable? And what "them" are we talking about? On wikis, boxes are for at-a-glance reference and the main body of the article is for details, including things like the description (in the base of trap components). What isn't "presentable" to you? Just curious, not being snotty. -- B.Rossow talkcontr 20:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
          • A block of italic text at the top which has been copy/pasted from MH. We don't need it on mice articles because we can link to mouse pages, but we're stuck with it for traps. Is there a "quote box" or something we can use instead of just throwing it in there? Even if it's at the bottom of the article... I'm just bugged by the fact the articles aren't beginning with their introductory sentences (The Something is a...). Revengeance 05:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
            • I understand your concern. My concern at this point in time is that moving the text to a box would leave some of the pages with virtually no content (for example, see Sinister Portal). If people are willing to flesh out the pages with accurate and articulate narrative about each trap, I think it's reasonable to move the MH description somewhere else, perhaps in a section of its own. But until that happens, my personal opinion is that it would be a big mistake to put it into a box when on some pages it's the only text content to speak of. -- B.Rossow talkcontr 05:47, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
              • I see you've added the descriptions to the boxes... looks much better. :) Revengeance 10:00, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Power Type

Should have information not just on the types it is effective against, but very effective and not very effective writeup too. Could possibly list down the mice, or link to the mice page? -- Grexx 18:37, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

  • No problem if there's some empirical data to support it. As of right now the only official "not very effective" info I've seen is in non-shadow traps against shadow-type mice. But I've been holed up in Furoma for a long time now, so I may have missed something. -- B.Rossow talkcontr 17:08, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Would it not be sensible to have the power types in the same order as the trapsmith help info, rather than in alphabetical order?--Amyarlp 03:15, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

  • Not really. This is a reference site. Few people have memorized the order of the power types in the help info and would be thus confused by alphabetical order. ABC order makes it easier to find what you're looking for. -- B.Rossow talkcontr 03:58, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I only thought it because all the other data seems to be in the order which you encounter it as you progress. The trap list for example runs through all phy then shad then tact then arcane last. For continuities sake surely the power types should be in the same order.--Amyarlp 04:13, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
The difference is that the Weapons and Bases are in sortable tables and can easily be rearranged by various columns, depending on what the person is looking for. In that case, they are initially in order of power (most important factor) and arranged in groups. But again, any of the columns can be sorted in those tables. The power types, however, are a simple bulleted list. That's the reason. :-) -- B.Rossow talkcontr 04:17, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

High resolution images

When, or if, we're permitted to upload files, it'd be good to have each image properly prepared. For the sake of formality, we should save base images with the Tacky Glue Trap, weapon images with the Wooden Base, and all images without baited cheese. Keeping them as original PNG files would be nice, too. Here's a checklist; links are ones I've already saved. Revengeance 20:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Bases

Weapons

New Link Added

could anyone please check out the third link on the traps page? i created the chart, and i need some feedback on it... thanks for your time =] Elrenacimiento 17:20, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

  • Wow, great breakdown of the combination bonuses... nice work. By the way, don't forget to sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~). Revengeance 09:36, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
    • thank you for your input =] Elrenacimiento 17:20, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Just to clarify, only sign your entries on Discussion (Talk) pages like this one, not changes you make to actual subject pages. :-) -- B.Rossow talkcontr 17:33, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
        • haha cool =p i'm new to Wiki, so i have a lot to get used to XP thanks for the heads-up guys =D Elrenacimiento 17:59, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Update: i've updated the chart to include the new Polar Base. Happy Hunting and Merry Christmas! =] Elrenacimiento 07:37, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

¡Gracias! -- B.Rossow talkcontr 07:38, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Update: i've made a second sheet for those who want specific traps, but are unsure with the proper base =]

Trap vs. Weapon

We really need to sort this out. As far as I've understood, a weapon isn't a trap, it's a weapon. A trap is the result of combining a base with a weapon, which is why Trap Power refers to the combination of base and weapon power. The weapon articles begin by referring to them as traps, which will need changing. But first, discuss! Revengeance 18:46, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

  • I've wrestled with this, too, and the real problem is that the developers aren't consistent so it's impossible for us to be. Unless the devs make up their minds, there's no way for us to sort it out. For example, to craft the Ambush (which is clearly a weapon), you need to have the Ambush Trap Blueprints. WTF, man? That's just one example. No solution that I can see except making sure every actual weapon that is not otherwise "officially" named as Such-And-Such Trap is referred to as a weapon. I've been making the change as best I can when I edit a weapon-related page, but in the case of those like the Ambush, that's virtually impossible without being inaccurate with regard to what it's called in-game. See also: Tacky Glue Trap, Swiss Army Mouse Trap, NVMRC Forcefield Trap -- B.Rossow talkcontr 19:03, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
    • I'd guess we could refer to those last ones as "Tacky Glue Trap weapon", for example, which doesn't really sound too strange. Still, some weapon descriptions clearly refer to them as traps, so I suppose we'll have to settle with "trap" having a double-meaning for a weapon or the combination of a base and a weapon. Perhaps we should change the opening sentence to incorporate the double-meaning? Revengeance 10:08, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Information

The place named "base" doesn't really describe what a base is, it just shows different types of bases and it is linked to the "Starting out" page. Though most of us are very familiar with these concepts, beginning players probably want to know what a base is and does rather than a chart of them... Am I alone in thinking this? --Justin.craig09 23:50, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

  • Sounds like a good project for you. Write up some info for the top of the Traps page about both bases and weapons ("In MouseHunt, a trap is composed of a base plus a weapon. A base is .... and a weapon is ...." and so on. Direct readers to the charts down the page for more info on specific bases and weapons.  :-) -- B.Rossow talkcontr 23:56, 29 December 2008 (UTC)


Forgotten / Arcane

Just a simple note in preparation for any possible confusion in the edit rush later when everyone's maps are completed :)

Power Types for the new mice are listed as Forgotten, but for the new trap the Power Type is Arcane. The Power Types therefore do not match, unlike the earlier Power Types of Physical, Shadow, and Tactical. Which leads me to wonder if the new trap would be effective against more than 1 power type (ie effective against Shadow and Forgotten type mice).

-- Grexx 12:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Not according to the current description of Arcane weapons. The devs removed the bit about Shadow mice – Forgotten mice only. -- B.Rossow talkcontr 13:48, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Interesting discussion on boards

Check out this link. This would be good to incorporate into the wiki. I'm not feeling up to it right now. Anyone? -- B.Rossow talkcontr 03:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I saw that link too a while ago, good info there. It is briefly discussed on the Arcane, Shadow, Tactical, Physical pages under the Effectiveness section. We might want to consolidate that into another page Effectiveness or Power Type Effectiveness. Its somewhat complicated by things like the Dwarf and Pirate mice being Tactical but can be caught normally with Physical traps. -- Grexx 05:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Just an update on the task, which has been completed. Article is at Effectiveness :) -- Grexx 16:46, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Weapons Table

Since we have these neat and handy sortable tables for Bases and Weapons ... wouldn't it be better to have all weapons incorporated into one single table so you can compare them all... I understand that a lot of peeps out there don't have the Chrome or Frosty but some do and I'm sure they'd like to use the sorting options of the Wiki :D _____m. 21:36, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I've incorporated this change into some other significant changes on the page. Namely, in an attempt to keep everyone happy (if not overjoyed) I added back basic pricing information, leaving out refund amount (which I don't think plays a big role in purchasing decisions) and specific trapsmith info (again, I don't think this is a significant factor in deciding whether or not to buy a particular weapon). I don't see any reasonable way in which the table can be everything for everyone, but I hope this is a good compromise. -- B.Rossow talkcontr 15:12, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
A quick note on the alternate-row highlighting I just added to the tables ... when you sort the tables, it obviously messes up the row highlighting. If anyone thinks this display issue outweighs the benefits of looking nice and being easy to read on first page load, feel free to revert. No easy solution to this one AFAIK. -- B.Rossow talkcontr 15:29, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
Thank you! *overjoyed* xD _____m. 21:11, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Span Tag

Just want to mention that the font size setting in the "span" tag seems to be a necessity in IE6 and FF3.0.6. For some reason, even while hidden, the characters take up space in the table. You can test it on a long string and look at the preview to get an idea, or look at the "span" tag on the Journeyman text: <span style="visibility:hidden;font-size:0pt">50000</span>. -- Grexx 18:00, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll be darned. Never noticed that before, but also never used a long string as in your example. Learn something new every day!
Here's something that will make both of us happy: "display:none;" — same effect of hiding the text as with the "visibility:hidden;" property but the non-displayed string doesn't take up any space. Learned that here when researching the above. :-)
FWIW, for any span tag that uses a number (such as font-size) you don't need to specify a unit if it's zero (0). For the sake of good code, however, you should finish it off with a semicolon at the end. Your example above would look like this: <span style="visibility:hidden; font-size:0;">50000</span>. Obviously there are lots of variations that will work. :-) -- B.Rossow talkcontr 18:37, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
Ok noted. Thanks for checking it up too. Not familiar with span tags myself so just trying my luck with the font size 0 earlier lol. -- Grexx 18:40, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Freshness Chart

Please feel free to edit the code below directly if it can be further improved.
Quick list of freshness span tags below:

  • <span style="display:none;">-5</span>Ultimately Stale
  • <span style="display:none;">-6</span>Insanely Stale
  • <span style="display:none;">-7</span>Extremely Stale
  • <span style="display:none;">-8</span>Very Stale
  • <span style="display:none;">-9</span>Stale
  • <span style="display:none;">0</span>No Effect
  • <span style="display:none;">1</span>Fresh
  • <span style="display:none;">2</span>Very Fresh
  • <span style="display:none;">3</span>Extremely Fresh
  • <span style="display:none;">4</span>Insanely Fresh
  • <span style="display:none;">5</span>Ultimately Fresh
  • <span style="display:none;">6</span>Über Fresh

Staleness levels are ranked with most stale as -1, since wiki reads the '-' as just another character rather than minus. Current starting value of -5 is to allow for future addition if any more staleness levels are added in-game.
-- Grexx 18:10, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Weapon Tables

Now that we have all those sortable tables on each page of the Bases I think it would also be very nice and handy to do the same for the Weapons. Example here.
What do you think? _____m. 20:38, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't even need discussion. Go for it! Just make a note on the associated talk pages including the "conversion" chart as above.  :-) -- B.Rossow talkcontr 22:00, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Trap Effectiveness

Going to need some feedback on this. Firstly please see User:Grexx/Sandbox#Trap_Effectiveness_Chart. All trap effectiveness information has been confirmed (not completely reflected in the table yet, but is on the forum thread). Basically I need suggestions on where best to put the information and how to organize it. Some candidates:

  1. Traps Page
  2. Mice Page
  3. Power Type Page
  4. Trap Effectiveness Page, new page specially to discuss the specifics of effectiveness messages.
  5. Physical, Shadow, Tactical, Arcane/Forgotten Pages. Basically split up.

Suggestions and ideas please. And some help too if you have the time :D Some of the things that need to be done:

  1. Clearer writeup on the various power pages: Physical Shadow Tactical Arcane
  2. Clearer writeup on the various trap pages and a simple mention back to effectiveness (where ever it is going to be located)
  3. Clearer writeup on the mice page regarding power types.

Open to more ideas as usual. Please give feedback thanks. -- Grexx 14:52, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Have made a compact, shortened version of the effectiveness chart here. -- Grexx 18:35, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I vote putting it either on Power Type or Trap Effectiveness. I like the smaller table, although I wonder how it would look if you used words, rather than symbols, just for the sake of accessibility. Camomiletea 23:03, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I've switched it over to words now, was quickly doing up a sample table last night before I went offline :)
I'm leaning towards a long table in Trap Effectiveness page, plus links from the various weapon pages and mice page. I believe the smaller table can go into the Cheat Sheet. I'll probably start working on it in a few hours time if no one else has any further suggestions. -- Grexx 11:24, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
I've added the Effectiveness Page rather than Trap Effectiveness since there's a number of pages that talk about effectiveness and it'll be easier to link that way. Have also added a condensed version onto the Cheat Sheet. Planning to tidy up the Power Type, Physical, Shadow, Tactical, Arcane/Forgotten Pages to reflect the new page if no one else does it in the meantime -- Grexx 18:15, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Trap Attributes

The information here is lifted almost directly from the in-game text. However I've noticed that it has been slightly touched up over time. In this case some of the changes are quite important, namely:

  • a change from "accuracy bonus to attraction bonus" under Attraction Bonus
  • changing "positive" cheese effect to "fresh" cheese effect
  • the addition of "very" effective to Shadow description

These are changes which the developers have missed out or did not make clear enough. Normally we would revert all changes back to the in-game description, but seeing that it is a section talking about a very important aspect of MH game play, I think it should be left as is, since the changes serve to clarify the terms.

I also plan to compile a list of incorrect game descriptions that the developers can refer to easily. -- Grexx 15:14, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

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