Talk:Cheese

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Revision as of 15:09, 14 December 2009 by Grexx (talk | contribs) (→‎Reorganisation: reply)

Ancient Cheese

Anyone heard any news of this one being made??? --Delish 05:38, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Maki Cheese

The cheese says it can be collected. But it may be crafted anyone hear anything real about this? --Delish 19:59, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

What cheese are you talking about? -- B.Rossow talkcontr 20:04, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
In the cheese shop in Furoma it lists Maki as a cheese and says it can be collected in this region. It looks like susheese and says that students can't resist it. --Delish 20:07, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
The cheese shoppe in the Catacombs lists Ancient as a cheese. The description is: These tender morsels spark with electric energy that bind together dust-like particles of stale cheese. Ancient cheese expels a strong stale scent and is extremely volatile. --Peter888 20:14, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Ahh — interesting! Hadn't seen that yet (too busy editing here, I guess). Wait and see, I guess. I sense new recipes coming soon! -- B.Rossow talkcontr 20:23, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Lame! Are they going to let you keep stale cheese? If so, I am owed some back pay...... --Delish 20:26, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

General Discussion

for each cheese, roughly what power should your trap be for optimal financial efficacy? i'd like to see estimates included. if anyone has the information to mathematically produce such numbers that would be better (/amazing)! Thanks! -Alex

My early experience here tells me that if you have the patience, nothing beats Cheddar. I figure, for the price, I'd have to catch mice 5 times as frequently, or 10 times as frequently, to justify spending more. I just haven't seen catch rates go up like that. -Elliott

OK - I have to amend my earlier advice. I still say Cheddar is the best until you can afford the Swiss Army trap and explosive base - because your catch rate before then is so poor there's no point baiting with anything else - the mice will just steal it.

Cheese Attraction Rates (Accuracy)

Does anyone remember the catch percentage for cheese types? It used to be listed. If I didn't remember wrongly, Cheddar is 35%(30%?), Marble is 65%, Swiss is 80%, and Brie is 90%. SUPER|Brie+ is still being shown as 99%. It'd also be nice if someone added the approximate attraction rates for the crafted cheese as they collect enough data :) -- Grexx 15:36, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Bump, as I would be rater interested in this :) _____m. 23:43, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
I went through virtually every page of the revision history and it was never listed here. Maybe listed in-game, IIRC? As much as things have been tweaked since the early days of the game, I'd be surprised if those percentages are particularly meaningful anymore. Those numbers were listed at a time when there was only a single power type and a small handful of mice. -- B.Rossow talkcontr 23:51, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
Listed in-game in the cheese description last time, sorry for not being clearer. Based on the information I've since gathered, I believe they removed it because they lowered the attraction rates for other regions whilst keeping the original attraction rate for the Gnawnia region, on top of implementing a slight attraction bonus for every rank increase. I have since put up the approximate attraction rates for the cheese in the talk pages as I use them in the various regions:Talk:Swiss, Talk:Brie. You can see more reports in my profile User:Grexx/Hunt_Statistics. This would make a good community data collection effort, but will require trusted individuals to carry out the data collection. -- Grexx 14:40, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorting consistency

Since SB+ and RB are not purchasable in the Cheese Shoppe they should be sorted into their own category -- maybe Special Cheese (I'm open for better name suggestions)...
But on the other hand you can get SB+ over the shop if you donate so we could also leave it where it is and move RB to the momentary Crafted then renamed Created Cheese.
Any opinions to this problem? _m. 22:18, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Order in inventory

I'm sure most of us are aware that the more "elite" cheeses are sorted first in one's inventory. I think somewhere we should list that full sequence.

Here's the ones that I either have, or remember with 100% confidence where they were when I had them:

  • Moon
  • Runic
  • Ancient
  • Rb
  • SB+
  • Maki
  • Brie
  • Swiss
  • Marble
  • WC
  • Cheddar

That still leaves the four Furoma master cheeses. -- Pakaran 03:28, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Here's my list including the Furoma cheeses (except for Rumble, which I don't have yet):
  • Moon
  • RB
  • SB+
  • Rumble (just added -- Camomiletea 20:26, 10 March 2009 (UTC))
  • Combat
  • Susheese
  • Glutter
  • Maki
  • Brie
  • Swiss
  • Marble
  • WC
  • Cheddar
-- Camomiletea 02:13, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
It looks like there's only some order to the cheese list but not all. Mine is as follows:
  • Ancient
  • Radioactive Blue
  • Super Brie
  • Rumble
  • Glutter
  • Susheese
  • Combat
  • Brie
  • Swiss
  • Marble
  • Cheddar
Notice the difference in Glutter and Combat between mine and Camomiletea's
-- Grexx 15:26, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Cheese IDs

I don't understand what was the point of adding cheese IDs. It's confusing and not useful information. -- Camomiletea 01:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Ancient and Stale

Ancient can be both crafted and acquired through imbuing other cheeses. The latter part makes it like Radioactive Blue, so I think there needs to be an adjustment to this article, particularly this sentence: "Radioactive Blue is created by imbuing other cheeses with potions and an increasing number of baits need to be crafted." And this sentence: "The following cheeses can only be obtained through crafting:" (emphasis mine) -- unless Ancient is just moved into the Special section with a good description.

I think this article also should mention stale cheese, maybe in the intro. -- Camomiletea 04:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Cheese descriptions

I don't understand the system here. Some cheese descriptions are using the in-game descriptions, others are a summary of where they are used, what they are used to catch, how they are obtained. I think this should be standardized... -- Camomiletea 15:54, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe the confusion arose from the fact that there has been a lot more cheese added into the game. We should have the in-game description here, as well as any additional information. What this means is that, all other Cheese pages will redirect here, unless they have very useful information that requires them to be separate. For example, the Gnarled article is mostly just a copy of the potions page, completely redundant on its own. There's a lot of cleanup to be done. We should also use the <div id="example">Example</div> tag here for easy navigation and redirects. -- Grexx 16:12, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
After looking at some of the Crafted Cheese, I think the in-game descriptions can be removed from that page and moved here, as well as most of the strategy, except those pertaining directly to the formula itself, such as the fact that Ancient cheese can also be gotten through potions. That will reduce the page bulk and keep it specialized for formulas only. Alternatively, all Crafted Cheese information will be moved to that page, leaving just a link and brief description and list of crafted cheese on this article. -- Grexx 16:43, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Improvements

I've been thinking about possible improvements to the page, and here's what I came up with:

  • Firstly, SB+ will be moved to Standard Cheese, which will be renamed Cheese (Standard). It should be classed as standard because it is almost always used in place of the other cheese such as Swiss, Brie, Gouda, etc.
  • Then comes the Special Cheese. This will be a section that will hold
  • Cheese (potions), and will include all cheese types that can be created using potions, and link to the various potion articles.
  • Cheese (crafted), which will link to Crafted cheese.
Handling of Standard Cheese

Handling of individual cheese pages. All standard cheese information will be merged into this page, except for SB+, which contains a ton of information. Most of it is duplicate information anyways. Redirects will point to the individual cheese which will have div tags.

Handling of Special Cheese

For the Special Cheese section, each will hold a table that will have 3 columns, namely Cheese Name, In-game Description, and Used In. This way, it will be a summary page of where each cheese should be used. While it would be more logical to redirect all cheese names to this page, most players would be looking for the formula, thus all crafted cheese will continue to point to the respective cheese on the crafted cheese page, except for Ancient

Handling of Cheese created from potions

As for Potion created cheese, mainly RB and Gnarled, the information should be moved to Radioactive Blue and Gnarled, since both articles are closely related. As for Ancient, the issue has already been somewhat solved by redirecting to Ancient (disambiguation). Many articles now begin with the word Ancient, so that is one good solution. Alternatively, we could treat it the same as with RB and Gnarled, with a statement on the formula pointing to the crafted cheese page, as well as a link to the disambiguation page, since the majority of searches for Ancient should still be on the Cheese.

As there are a number of steps presented here, when replying please be clear which segment is being discussed, thanks :) Oh and if anyone wants to take the changes up once discussion is concluded (or I'm talking to myself), please go ahead. The steps required have been clearly listed here :D -- Grexx 17:17, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the Special Cheese - some cheese, namely Runic and Ancient would be hard to categorize into either (potions) or (crafted) because they can be created using both methods. Unless you mean to put them in twice in both categories? -- Camomiletea 17:24, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Oh right, totally missed out Runic as it wasn't listed under the current special cheese. Yes with regards to cheese that can be acquired in both ways, it will be listed as such, possibly with a note stating that it can be acquired by the other means. We'll see how it turns out visually and if it is really necessary, but this will be kept in mind. -- Grexx 17:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I am in the midst of editing the Standard Cheese section, and noticed that Brie can also be converted using potions. However, it will remain solely under the standard cheese section as the definition of special cheese will be those that are specific to 1 or 2 locations. Therefore it will not be listed under the 'Cheese (potions)' section. Ultimately, Brie Alchemy Potions are more of an indirect gift of gold to players. -- Grexx 19:54, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Completed the conversion. I settled on merging the potions and crafted cheese into a single section under 'Cheese (Special)'. Let me know if there are any further improvements that can be made. Not sure how the images should be handled though. Quite useless to put it into its own column in the tables, and not very useful as a list at the bottom. -- Grexx 08:18, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Images

Using this as a temporary holding area for existing images until the page is finished.

-- Grexx 20:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Reorganisation

Plan on reorganizing the way the cheese are laid out as currently it isn't really user friendly since players need to run through the whole long list of cheese before they can find the one they are looking for (especially for those near the bottom). It will be reorganized based on regions, similar to what is currently being used on the Crafted cheese article. Will be doing away with the specific cheese names and retaining region names instead, so that the article retains a broad overview of cheese usage and source for each region, while further details can be followed using existing links once players zoom in on a particular cheese.

Using a simple example, a new player with little idea about cheese would be unlikely to ever chance upon White Cheddar since he currently needs to read through 28 cheese names separated into 2 broad categories (30 lines/mini-sections). Once organized into regions, the maximum he would need to go through is 6 standard cheese and the 2 categories.

Let me know if there's any comments on this, if not I will be proceeding with it in due time. -- Grexx 16:53, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm all four paws for that, but speaking about White Cheddar - isn't it more related to Harbour then Town of Gnawia or Meadow? After all without going to the Harbour you can't really craft it. --Nux 17:39, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Yup, players need to reach a certain location or rank before they have access to a certain type of cheese, but that's not the main purpose of region sectioning. As with Crafted cheese, it is meant to highlight the areas where players can utilise the cheese found under that particular regional section, which is more helpful than just a list. So for example, if players so choose, they could hunt in the Town of Gnawnia with White Cheddar and avoid the red boxes in the Harbour, especially if they didn't use their gold wisely and are short of gold to buy the next trap. -- Grexx 15:09, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
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