Talk:Crafting Items

Images

Holding area for images. It should go up somewhere, but not yet decided on how and where. HG server image means it has not been uploaded elsewhere as yet. -- Grexx 07:59, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Another column could be made--Stinson 19:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I played with the idea of another column, but I was thinking that unless the developers actually give us image upload capabilities, it would be quite ugly to have a column called images and then just have links there. Sort of points out the lack of images I think. But the thing is I really dislike dumping all the images at the bottom like what's being done on some of the other pages, especially if the list is long. So still thinking of a better solution... -- Grexx 20:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I think might settle for a simple table at the bottom, under images as a subsection under contents. It'll contain 5 alphabets per row (19 alphabets being used now). That should compress the height somewhat, and provide a easily searchable list. So it'll be something like:

Example Table

Table has been moved to the main article itself to avoid confusion on where to update links to. -- Grexx 20:56, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Table is completed, but the number of missing images is way too high to put it onto the main article. Going to need quite a fair bit of assistance on this. -- Grexx 17:47, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Can someone check if store bought items from the General Stores have higher resolution images available, in a manner similar to the Cheese images, where inventory images are of smaller resolution as compared to the images available in the Cheese Shoppe. If there are, the image links here should be updated with the higher resolution images as much as possible. The image list is almost done too. It should be ready to be moved into the main article. This will be done after we confirm the image resolution. Either way, the section can go up first, since the images aren't really as vital as Mice and Trap images. -- Grexx 17:00, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Image list

Should we maintain a list of direct image links in case they need to be re-uploaded for any reason? Some intermediate items may be difficult to find in the future. I'll start with Chrome Nannybot components before I craft them. Some need to be uploaded for a first time... I'm too lazy to update that clunky image table. Adding rows to even/odd highlighted tables is annoying enough. If the general consensus is not to keep these links, feel free to remove them. --Hyperchao 18:23, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

• Nannybot Parts: http://98.129.188.217/mousehunt/images/items/crafting/trap_parts.gif (generic parts image)
• Chrome Nanite Coating: http://98.129.188.217/mousehunt/images/items/crafting/chrome_nanites.gif
• Superstar Nanny Glasses: http://98.129.188.217/mousehunt/images/items/crafting/item_superstar_nanny_glasses.gif
• Time Out Upgrade: http://98.129.188.217/mousehunt/images/items/crafting/timeoutupgrade.gif

Yes, please maintain the list of direct links, but not here. There's MHWiki:Image Links page. -- camomiletea 13:35, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Meteorite Piece

The external link to this image is broken or no longer valid. Can anyone replace it? In the meantime I'll unlink it. Thanks. Joseph 02:49, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Here's a link to the meteorite image on MH servers (needs to be uploaded soemwhere else): Meteorite Piece. Also here's a Frozen Scroll (also needs to be uploaded elsewhere. -- Camomiletea 19:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Splitting of Table

There's a need to split the table into General Crafting Items and Event Limited Crafting Items (or whatever name is more appropriate) to reduce clutter somewhat. Event Limited Crafting Items will hold any item that appears in the Crafting Items drop-down list, and as the description says, will contain the list of items that are available only during events. In the event that the item is subsequently available as a normal drop (ie Coal), it will be moved back into the General Crafting Items table.

Appreciate if someone can take this up, since I'm short of time to work on this. Most of the items to be included in the Event Limited Crafting Items have just recently been released. Redirects need to be adjusted for those currently pointing to the Festive Gift Shoppe. -- Grexx 16:29, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

I would suggest a separate section for these items' images as well. --B.Rossow • talk 18:04, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

I added the separate table; but not sure if Mistletoe and Christmas Coal should be in there too, since I don't have those items... -- Camomiletea 18:15, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

At this point, no. They aren't listed as crafting items in the Inventory. --B.Rossow • talk 18:23, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

That's not conclusive, e.g. Greeting Card is also not listed in the crafting items in the Inventory but it appears in the drop-down menu for crafting. I guess I'm going to try to obtain these two items to verify. -- Camomiletea 18:26, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Good point. :-) FWIW, I have all of the items and all appear in the drop-down except the Santa Bear and the Slightly Smaller Gift. --B.Rossow • talk 18:29, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the help with splitting it out. I've done some further adjustments to the items that were missed out as well as splitting the images, so it should be much clearer now. Let me know if there's any more suggestions for improvements :) -- Grexx 14:55, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Great Winter Hunt '09 items

So now that we know that the 12 Christmas items and the gifted items are not going to be used for crafting, should they remain here? I'm not sure where they would go otherwise. A new miscellaneous/gifts page? --Hyperchao 17:45, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Or were only the new set of expensive gifts (e.g. gold bar) verified to be decorative? --Hyperchao 17:47, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

The reasoning why these items were placed here is that when you go to Crafting page, and pull down the menu of available ingredients, they are there. Even the items that the devs confirmed had no use (which was only the last batch with the gold brick). Note also that Egg Nog which is part of the 12 items still remains after the exchange. I would suggest keeping them here. They are separated from the other crafting items anyway in the Limited section, and I think that's enough (rather than having them on a separate page). -- Camomiletea 21:18, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Ah. Didn't check the crafting ingredient list. Only checked the items shown on the crafting page. --Hyperchao 21:58, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

With the advent of MH 3.0, the 12 festive items are now Collectibles, and do not show up in the in-game Crafting tab. And, since the link to craft Christmas Cracker Trap is now dead (it was https://www.mousehuntgame.com/xmasclaim.php), anyone that collected the items but did not build the trap is stuck with the items. Which means we probably ought to move the them off of Crafting Items and into the Collectibles page. -- ericb ^talk_contr 12:41, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Categorization of Novelty Items

This discussion was initially started in Talk:Teddy Bear. It has been moved as a whole into this more general talk page. The last discussion could be found here. -- Grexx

Since there are now more and more items like this one (Teddy Bear, Santa Bear, Slap Cat, Toy Ronza Ship); I think we need a category for them or a single page on which all could be listed... Don't know what would be a good name. -- Camomiletea 00:27, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Comfort and Hope? Pus 00:49, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Flavour/Flavor Items. There's a number of them, most of the items sold in the Festive Gift Shoppe are just there for flavour and not for crafting, even if they do fall under crafting items. It's certainly up for more discussion though. -- Grexx 10:30, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Novelty Collectables. This is from the Developers in the last minute Christmas shopping news post. "All the new items are entirely novelty collectables" -- Ralphminer 12:30, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I would recommend using a category rather than a page - since a hunter does not need to compare them. -- Ralphminer 12:32, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I think it would be good if it were centralized like Crafting Items and Cheese, which makes it easy to keep track of, as well as clearing any confusion there might be about the usage of these items. There are 2 categories at the moment, clickables and non-clickables. We could probably create a new article Novelty Collectables and point the various items there, including Gold Bricks etc. One look and players will know that the items have no practical usage. If we do decide on Novelty Collectables, we'll need to remember a redirect on Novelty Collectibles, as both are acceptable variants. -- Grexx 17:38, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Do we know that they are all novelty collectibles though? I know that the last wave of holiday gifts were confirmed to be useless in terms of crafting, but as far as I'm aware that's the only info we have. Are we sure, for instance, that the Teddy Bear is useless? -- Doogleface 18:45, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Regardless of the usefulness of the item, most of them certainly qualify as Novelty Collectables. A remark can be easily made about the fact that whether it works or not is unknown, and best left to the player's imagination. One way around this is to have another Novelty Item section in Crafting Items to hold those listed as crafting ingredients, and another Novelty Collectables article to hold the items that appear under the Misc tab, ie Teddy Bear. Of course another solution is to check with Dave on that, but it'll be best to sort out any details here first. -- Grexx 19:09, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

That could work. We could sort the Novelty Collectibles article like it's done in MH inventory.. Like have sections for gifts, misc, and crafting. Also I like your idea of also putting the "craftable" items on the crafting page, with a note saying it's uncertain how they will be used. Is it ok that the novelty collectibles that are also used for crafting will appear twice- once on each page? -- Doogleface 2:22, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Created page at Novelty Collectibles (note spelling) -- Doogleface 15:58, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Please avoid creating pages that contain little more than an introduction... I know it can be fun getting something out first, but it would have been better to have created such an article in your personal sandbox so it can be at least more partially completed before it is introduced. As it stands, the name itself is incorrect. We default to the format that the game developers typically use if there are any conflicts, since that's what most players would see. That's fine though, because we would have needed a redirect on that naming either ways. I have since made a temporary redirect to Crafting Items while it is being worked on.

More importantly, the layout hasn't exactly been ironed out, most details are outstanding, and no one currently seems to have the time or inclination to work on the article. I'll try to list out the basic outline of a page so at least the discussion can go along those lines, rather than drifting around.

Back to the order of the day, a brief outline of how we can handle the various novelty items.

1. Teddy Bears and related items are quite direct, and should be placed directly into Novelty Collectables, along with a writeup stating that whether they work or not is best left to the player's imagination (or similar).
2. While Teddy Bear appears under the Misc tab, and Slap Cat & such under the Gifts tab, they are essentially the same. It was just a quick sub-categorization by the developers, since Icing Sugar appears under Gifts too, even though most are probably from loot (gifts from mice? :D). Hence there is no need to differentiate between the two, other than to mention where they appear under.
3. It also has to be decided if the items should be in table form, similar to Cheese, or with each item getting its own section, similar to Maps and Keys. Personally I think a table would suffice, since there isn't really that much variation between the various items.

While novelty items that appear in the Gifts and Misc tab can be safely placed into Novelty Collectables, items that appear under the Crafting tab need to be kept within Crafting Items in my opinion, to avoid confusion.

1. Items that appear in the Gift tab should be placed into a new section called 'Novelty Items', under Crafting Items. I find this the most logical since most of the Gift items still appear under the crafting drop-down list, and will help players clear up any confusion about the usage.
2. Items that appear in the Gift tab, and that have a known crafting use, will continue to be kept under Crafting Items#Event Limited Crafting Items.
3. The introduction to the Novelty Items section should mention that these items are just collectables, and are not expected to be used in any form of crafting.

Let me know your thoughts on the layout. If there aren't any major disagreements, the general framework can be used directly. -- Grexx 16:26, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Good outline Grexx. My chief concern is how to distinguish Novelty Collectables from other interesting but currently useless items. Will all the items offered as gifts end up in this page? I agree items like Teddy Bear belong there, but what about the Gold Bar? Christmas Coal? Icing Sugar? I think they have to be looked at on an item-by-item basis. Who would try to collect icing sugar? Nobody. Christmas coal? Probably some. Gold Bar? Lots of people. Greeting Card? Maybe. It's a hard line to draw, but I don't think anyone would be upset if we erred on including too many items in the list. I would try to make the page/table on my own, but I'm currently 0 for 1 on page creations and I think I should leave it to someone with more experience. -- Doogleface 18:09, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

According to the outline by Grexx above, items like Gold Bar and Christmas Coal will remain in crafting Items within (new) "Novelty Items" section. These are the gift items that still appear in the crafting drop-down menus, though they've been identified by devs as solely collectables with no practical use. Items like Icing Sugar will remain in Crafting Items#Event Limited Crafting Items because these are gifts that have a known crafting use. -- Camomiletea 18:20, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification Camomiletea :) Something else I missed out is the Smashed Teddy Bear. As I don't have one myself, I won't be able to verify, but it should follow the guidelines as mentioned above. If it appears under the crafting tab, then it should belong under the 'Novelty Items' section within 'Crafting Items'. It currently doesn't appear within Crafting Items, so I'm unsure about this.

Anyways Doogleface, I wouldn't worry too much about making mistakes, we all do. No need to keep score, and don't be put off by your own mistakes. It is whether we learn from them that is important :) I made a good number of them myself when I first started working on the MH Wiki, and I still do occasionally, but they typically get fixed fast enough. That's the really strong point about wikis, where anyone can keep an eye on what is added, removed or changed.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about where each item goes. Once they are actually placed into the areas as discussed, any discrepancies typically become very obvious, and can be rectified there and then. This is better than spending time debating about it and getting nothing done. -- Grexx 18:54, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I've put it up into Novelty Collectibles as mentioned under naming. Feel free to edit anything that needs improvement. -- Grexx 16:53, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Naming

Ok, I just noticed there's some inconsistency over the way developers are calling the Novelty Collectables/Collectibles. Under the gifts tab, they are termed as fun collectibles. I'll be switching to using Novelty Collectibles as the main article rather than Novelty Collectables since that should logically be the word that most players would see more frequently. Dave's post about Novelty Collectables wouldn't be seen by as many players over the course of time. But either ways, not particularly important since one variant will be redirected to the other. Just wanted to put down the thought process lol. -- Grexx 18:40, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Gold Brick Image

Current image looks like it has been resized. File format is also wrong. Appreciate if someone can upload the original file. -- Grexx 17:56, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Uploaded. Pus 19:27, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Ox Mask

Do we really know that Ox Mask doesn't have a use, or was the person who added it guessing? If we aren't sure it should probably say "Unknown" and not "None". The other items were kinda confirmed by the devs during the last event. -- Camomiletea 05:07, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I was just copying from the other lines. I guess Unknown would be safer. I will make the change. --Hyperchao 05:11, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I think we have confirmation that they have no use: "All of the candies, gifts and masks are fun collectibles to help everyone celebrate, and make hunting more fun!" [1] -- camomiletea 21:44, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Scrap Metal Cap

If there's still a max amount that players can gather from a certain location, it still bears mentioning. Also, are we so sure that it has been removed at all? Based on my hunts in the Lagoon for the Silth Mouse, I caught quite a number of Hydras, but only the very first one dropped scrap metal and brought me over 25 Scraps. The other 3-5 that I managed to catch dropped anything else but more Scrap. You'll have to be very wary about what people discuss on the forums because some frequently jump into something without reading the full text, in this case the explanation of the cap. -- Grexx 07:19, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the un-commented removal! :s ... I didn't pick it up from the forums (really don't have the time for those anymore or at least at the moment ;)) ... It's my very own experience. As I have tried to explain to you once before @Talk:Scrap_Metal#Limits that the Devs must have changed something since I had 26 and got 2 more pieces dropped.

Since I came to the Lagoon yesterday morning with those 28 pieces of Scrap metal I had the following Hydra catches:

14:00 yesterday I checked my trap and found that I had caught a mouse! I caught a 4 oz. Hydra mouse from the Lagoon worth 9,637 points and 5,764 gold. The mouse also dropped the following loot: 2 Scrap Metals, 1 Bolt of Cloth. My weapon was very effective against this mouse.

20:30 yesterday Xxx Xxxxxx sounded the Hunter's Horn. I was successful in my hunt! I caught a 3 oz. Hydra mouse from the Lagoon worth 9,638 points and 5,763 gold. The mouse also dropped the following loot: 2 Scrap Metals. My weapon was very effective against this mouse.

And this brings my total count up to 32 pieces. I figured that the info I removed was obsolete and wrong.

Sorry again for not explaining my edit. ____m. 08:50, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Ah ok, needn't have posted the hunts though. Your word is good enough lol. A final thing that needs confirmation is that the cap is also removed from catches in the Catacombs & Forbidden Grove, though I'd assume they would have removed it completely, but just to be sure :) -- Grexx 16:34, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorting

Would it be possible to make the 2nd column Category sortable so one could easily see which items are located where in his Inventory and/or might be missing from the same? ____m.

Yes, but when you sort, the mid-table "headers" end up next to one another. That's the best I could do. For more on table sorting, see wikipedia's sorting hints. -- ericb ^talk_contr 16:25, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Time for Change

I think it's time to do something drastic with this page. I absolutely hate adding new items. I vote for creating individual pages for all items. There is more information now that we can also present in dedicated pages, like Lexicon link, better organization e.g. with images. We can still maintain a minimalist display but it would be much easier if adding one new item doesn't require messing with a bunch of unnecessarily complex formatting as well as that of other items. We can keep everything automatically organized through categories, and linking to related items (which can also be more easily found/verified with "What links here"). Not many active editors left so I hope we can come to a consensus without too much hassle. --Hyperchao 07:24, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree, this page is royal pain to edit, and I think it's just too big to be useful these days. -- Twentypence 08:16, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

For the item pages we can more or less follow the format of the current table. I would say an infobox template is probably unnecessary but that can be explored later. The way I imagine it, the specifics would be:

1. First sectionless area can either be an intro line (we tend to leave these blank these days) or go straight into the official description, in italics
2. If we opt for intro line, "Description" will be the first section.
3. "Source" can be a simple statement of "Dropped by ___ in ___", "Bought at __ store", "Smashed from ___", etc, or a list if applicable. If we don't want to have another list to maintain, instead of listing mice who drop the item, simply link to the location and rely let players rely on the existing table there. If it is itself a crafted item, the recipe would appear here. Marketplace/Gifting designation also goes here.
4. "Usage" will link to recipe items which the item is involved in
5. "Related Items" would list items directly related to it (if it appears in a sole/main recipe, list other distinct recipe items), etc
6. "History and Trivia" as needed
7. Then image + Lexicon link (should Lexicon appear earlier?)
8. Finally, tag with "Crafting Item" category and possibly subgroup such as "Crafting Item (Trap Parts)". I know Wikipedia goes into when you should and shouldn't give membership to both a parent category and its sub-category, but I feel that as far as category browsing goes this is most convenient.

For the items that already redirect to other pages, we can simply tag the appropriate categories to the _redirecting_ page (i.e. the proper item name). I hope that will work as I expect. I think these are mostly blueprints (although there is at least one amusing circular redirect). Does all that sound decent? I will start with creating the new Muridae Market item pages and see if I run into any quirks. Once we agree we can go down the list on this page and create pages one by one. After everything is in place we can redirect this page to the Crafting Item category. --Hyperchao 11:05, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I am in favor, but I do want to raise a question: how are we going to handle the event limited items which are currently separate? -- camomiletea 18:37, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Ultimately I would rather see this done for all items including those in the Special tab, all craftables, and even collectibles. Then we can add categories for type (normal crafting, special [non-crafting], special event [crafting], etc), the actual event (or simply do this by listing in each event's page), and any other grouping information. This way when new items come out, we can just add it, then we can worry about where it goes later. --Hyperchao 03:01, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Anyone ambitious enough to convert the format for these crafting items (separate page for each item)? For new items I have added, I have gone with the new format, but I see everyone else is adding items only to this page, which is good until we make a full conversion, but ideally in addition to the new format. If there aren't any objections I just wanted to remind people of this and encourage the adoption. --Hyperchao 11:10, 30 August 2011 (UTC)