User talk:Ralphminer

Hi! I saw a couple of your new trap setup guides... I found hunting as an Apprentice in the Meadow that White Cheddar is pretty effective there (with Target base of course). I guess you don't include it because Novices can't get it yet, but it's a valid option for Apprentices. -- Camomiletea 15:15, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I included a mention about white cheddar in the harbour trap setup guide. I can add this to the Meadow as well. I was trying to keep the page simple for the novice - but I think that you are right that many apprentices like to try out White Cheddar in the meadow so it is worth a mention. I was going to treat it as a note since otherwise you have to get into the detail of Profit per hunt (White Cheddar doesn't help) or Profit per cheese (White Cheddar helps a lot).

-- Ralphminer 19:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Foxy Mouse

I've just noticed your update to the Foxy mouse, can I ask where you got this from? -- Twentypence 14:18, 03 July 2009 (UTC)

Cheese preference is an interesting concept that has been in the Wiki since before I got involved. For some mice this is easy since they have zero attraction to standard cheeses and are only attracted to special cheeses. Other mice are only attracted to Super Brie. The most interesting cases are mice that can be attracted to any cheese, but are more likely to be attracted to specific cheeses. Adding to the complexity is the fact that this cheese attraction seems to depend on location. I used the Black Widow Mouse as the base line for the standard of showing special attraction.

If a mouse has a special preference for one type of cheese over another - I would expect two things. First that the percentage of this type of mouse of the total population would increase significantly when compared to a cheese that is liked less. The Black Widow percentage of the total population increases by 45% to 180% when switching from Swiss to Brie cheese depending on location (45% increase in GGT 0.16/0.11 to 180% in the Calm Clearing). Looking at all mice in the GGT, CC, Digby, and Mountain - at most mice increase there percentage by 18%. The Foxy mouse in the Calm Clearing increases it's percentage of the population by 42% in the Calm Clearing - which is the same range as the Black Widow. As a sanity check - I confirmed that the Foxy Mouse also increase it's perctange also inceases in the GGT. As a further check I used the Catch Rate estimator to confirm that the estimated catch per 100 increases when switch from Swiss to Brie for the Foxy Mouse in both CC and GGT. The same calculations hold for SB.

For example the Bear Mouse shows a good increase in population when switching to Brie in the CC, but actually shows a decrease in the GGT. Since the results are mixed I would not show a cheese preference. -- Ralphminer 15:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm not sure those calculations are sufficient for putting something on the wiki as "fact". While it does appear that Swiss cheese attracts less Foxys than Brie or SB+, you have to take into account confidence intervals for the sample sizes.

I've done the calculations for the Foxy with Swiss, Brie and SB+ based on my observed populations, and there's a confidence of only ~35%-65%. I don't think that's high enough to put up as fact yet, but I think it might be worth putting a note on the discussion page of the mouse to keep an eye out for a potential preference. -- Twentypence 14:56, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I am surprised that the confidence levels are so low considering the number of samples in the Calm Clearing. Sample Size with Brie 2,802 and Sample Size with Swiss 7,555. In order the get the confidence levels up - do I need to get more Brie Samples in the Calm Clearing? The number of sample sizes are even larger in the GGT 4680 for Swiss and 7950 for Brie. Are you equally uneasy with the Wiki stating a prefrence of Brie over Swiss - or would it help if I removed the reference to SuperBrie - since there is no data for SB in the Calm Clearing. I will back out both if you want. -- Ralphminer 16:58, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

It's more due to the closeness of the population percentages, if there was a couple of percent difference then the confidence levels would be much higher, rather than just the relative difference. I'll keep an eye on the figures coming in from the survey and see if anything changes, large sample sizes and changes in percentage would both make it easier to tell. For the time being I think it's worth taking them out of the main article, but possibly putting something in the talk section. -- Twentypence 21:20, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Commonly Asked Questions

Hey, looked at your commonly asked questions thing and I tihnk it's really useful, perhaps it could be implemented into the FAQ page? Thomas5436 16:59, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

It needs some work - I have to seperate my opinions against content that is up to the MouseHunt wiki standards. I have been monitoring the forums to get a sense of the common questions. I think that the current FAQ is a bit of a mess. Now that I am done with Trap Setup options - I might move on to this. -- Ralphminer 17:25, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you mind if I add/edit it? Thomas5436 21:43, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Go ahead and add questions, answers and edits. I think that one of the goals should be to keep this shorter than the existing FAQ. One of the issues that I am struggling with is that this article is half way wanting to be a FAQ and half way wants to be walk through using the socratic method. One of my goals with the FAQ is not just provide answers (which I have done in a lot of cases) but explain the reasoning so that the interested person can draw their own conclusions. The best questions all have the answer "It Depends" in which case I can see this being a Table of Contents to a series of articles like DeathBolt or ForceField Trap. I like the current organization of questions by level - since I think that as a new player the current FAQ is confusing because it throws a lot of concepts at you way before you need to know about them. -- Ralphminer 22:23, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I like this section, since it covers a lot of common questions, and particularly the trap choices. I'd like to see it somewhere on one of the main pages, rather than here on a user page.

I've also been looking for some of the common questions being asked on the boards...

I noticed one small issue in the Journeyman section -- "should I risk crafting Dehydration base". There's no longer any risk. -- camomiletea 20:54, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Stone Base vs Explosive Base

• Should I skip the Stone Base?
  • No you should not. The 10% power bonus will be very important later in the game. On the other hand, you could skip the Stone Base for the Explosive Base, and return for it later.

In all the trap setup options that I did for the various locations I did not come up with an example where eithor the Explosive Base or the Wooden Base with Target was a better choice. Even if you need the Stone Base later in the game - as a novice I would recommend not buying it since it is easier to earn gold at the later levels and you can purchase it later if and when you need it. Can you give an example of when you would want to use the Stone Base? -- Ralphminer 00:56, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

The Stone Base is very useful when using traps with stale effects as explosive would increase the stale effect. As well, it catches a lot more mice compared to target base in early ventures into harbour. During later games with stronger traps, the 5% extra power will reduce the difference in power to a very small amount and the 5% gain in attraction is unneeded because of the more attractive cheeses. Feel free to change it back if you wish, but I think skipping the stone base isn't worth it.Thomas5436 14:52, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Trap Setup Options

Hi there, I noticed you've been working on the trap setup options articles, and there's a couple of things I'd like to point out. Seeing as there is much duplicated text in multiple pages, I recommend you have a look at creating a separate article holding the basic introduction. This can then be used as a transclusion, and inserted into the various articles instead. That way it will be much easier to make changes as the info would be in a centralized article, as well as cutting down on the work that needs to be done and cascaded into so many articles. If you'd like to see some examples of transclusions, you can look at the MHWiki:Current_events page or the simpler example in my Sandbox here.

I could not see Transclusions on the Current events page - but I agree that putting common text into Trap Setup Options Introduction will allow for consistency. -- Ralphminer 21:30, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd also suggest removing the 1 liners on the number of mice in a location, which adds additional areas to monitor (due to the occasional new mice) and distracts somewhat from the goal of the article. The information is also easily available from the main location article. -- Grexx 20:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I think that the mix of mouse types goes directlty to trap selection. I am open to making the language more general - how about "In this location, there are mice of three different power types (Physical, Shadow, and Tactical)." listing the types in the order of frequency? -- Ralphminer 22:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I was wondering what the colours in the tables stand for? Could you point me where to look for an answer or maybe tell me? ;) _____m. 19:47, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I was just trying to break the table up - I am not real consistent - sometimes I use different colors for different bases and sometimes I use different colors for different cheese. Coming up with something consistent would be an improvement. -- Ralphminer 23:15, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Inclusion into MoS

I think the Trap Setup Options are an excellent addition to the MH Wiki, and I'd like to discuss some further steps for improvement. Tied to the issue of consistency, as well as continuity, I hope that you can find some time to come up with the general steps that lead to the construction of the Trap Setup Option articles, which we will then include into the MHWiki:Manual of Style. This way, if for some reason you decide to stop working on them, the work can still be easily picked up by other editors. A guideline like this will also help a lot in maintaining consistency between the various pages, since there will now be a point of reference. Let me know your thoughts on this :) -- Grexx 17:57, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Sure thing - I have it down to a fairly mechanical process now. I'll try to write something up. Are you looking for something like the following. This would need to be cleaned up for an official style guide.

• Use Trap Setup Options Introduction for information common to all pages. This helps with consistency
• Add sentence on the number of mice per type. It has been suggested to get rid of this as it is one more thing to maintain - but I find it useful in justify the types of traps a hunter may want to use.
• Determine columns for table - Trap, Base, Cheese, Power, Luck, Cheese Effect, Attraction, Points, Profit per Hunt are all required for all areas. Note: Should be Profit Per Hunt - and not just Profit to make clear the difference between Profit per Hunt and Profit per Cheese.
• Determine what Hunters are likely to be doing - the Wiki location walk through is useful here. Basically any mice that drop keys, maps, or stuff needed later on. Hunters are also interest in rare mice (these mice are highlighted on the respective location pages).
• Mice that get their own column also get a mention in the introduction section.
• Use Prooflinger Catch Estimate tool - set the level to the lowest level than can access this location and set the Golden Badge to inactive. Using the best location tool determine traps that provide best points, best gold, and best at catching each mice that has it's own column. Exclude SB+ cheese unless this is the only way to catch a mouse.
• Ideally keep the number of options down to a dozen or less. Try to include recommend traps and bases from Wiki Walkthrough - include minimum traps if this doesn't create too many rows.
• Only include traps and bases that are available to hunters at the minimal level. Exclude limited edition traps.
• The Trap Setups pages are not a value judgment on if setups are worth it. Few recommend buying the Bottomless Grave - even though they can work well at certain locations.
• It is a good idea to scan the forums to see if any common strategies are being suggested that are not included in the tables.
• Add a link to any related MouseHunt Analytics articles.

Gave it a quick run through, and looks good. Will need more precise details on how to construct each area though. For example, the first step in adding the introduction, it would be clearer to actually mention transclusion itself and a quick explanation as well as how to implement it. Using <nowiki></nowiki> tags will help show the relevant info without actually implementing it. This is to avoid some editors actually copying the text word for word.

Additionally, I was thinking the articles could use a section to break the pages into half for easier reading, since some players would want to skip the introduction and jump right into the table. A section break will act as a visual cue in this case. To throw some names out, we could name it something like 'Options Chart' or 'Options Table' etc. -- Grexx 18:30, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Are you suggesting adding a Table of Contents to the Trap Setup Option pages? I think the section should be called "Options Table" -- Ralphminer 20:33, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Nope not a ToC but just another section using double '=='. From what I recall, ToC only appears after there are over 3 sections in an article. The main purpose as mentioned earlier is to break the page up for easier reading. The jump I meant was visually, not necessarily by clicking a ToC link, since the page is compact enough to see the majority of the article within a screen or two. -- Grexx 04:03, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay that makes sense - I'll try to get around to that this weekend. --Ralphminer 04:50, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Sure there's no rush. We should hold off on any changes to the various articles until we've finalized the MoS guide too, in case there are any further changes so we don't waste time implementing them too early. -- Grexx 05:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Draft Manual of Style for Trap Setup Options

The Trap Setup Options pages are as laid out below. This can also be used as the basic structure in creating a new Trap Setup Options page. Note that the sections should always be laid out in the order in which they are shown below, which is in the order of importance that most players will consider the information.

Article starts with the standard introduction for all Trap Setup Options pages. This is done via a transclusion. {{:Trap Setup Options Introduction}} What your current goal is The standard introduction will contain the standard goals for attraction, points, and profit Add a goal for any loot drops that open up new areas - these are typically map or key drops Add a goal for any loot drops that are needed to craft new traps. Use the format: If you are looking for {X}, you want a setup that catches the {Y} mice the best. Add a goal for any loot drops that are needed to craft bait. This can be potions, or items, or seeds. Use the format: If you are looking for {X}, you want the setup that catches {Y}, mice the best. Optionally add a goal for mice infrequently encountered in the location excluding the Black Widow mouse which is infrequent;y encountered in all locations. Use the format: Some hunters who are looking to complete their mouse collection will want the best setup for catching infrequently encountered mice. If you want to catch {X} mice, you want a setup that catches infrequently encountered {Power Type} mice the best. Options Table This section should always be included. Use Prooflinger Catch Estimate tool - set the level to the lowest level than can access this location and set the Golden Badge to inactive. Using the best location tool determine traps that provide best points, best gold, and best at catching each mice that has it's own column. Exclude SB+ cheese unless this is the only way to catch a mouse. Ideally keep the number of options down to a dozen or less. Try to include recommend traps and bases from Wiki Walkthrough - include minimum traps if this doesn't create too many rows. Only include traps and bases that are available to hunters at the minimal level. Exclude limited edition traps. The Trap Setups pages are not a value judgment on if setups are worth it. Few recommend buying the Bottomless Grave - even though they can work well at certain locations. It is a good idea to scan the forums to see if any common strategies are being suggested that are not included in the tables. Excluding mice that are rarely encountered {location} mice include {X} {power type} mice and {Y} {power type} mice. This is a rough guideline on which setup is best suited for a particular goal. The best choice for a particular goal is given a ranking of 1st. Shown in the table below are the statistics when combined with the respective Bases and bait. Click on the sorting box beside a particular attribute to do a quick comparison. Trap Base Cheese Power Luck Cheese Effect Attraction Points Profit Per Hunt Additional Goals 500 Pound Spiked Crusher Explosive Base Swiss 633 1 -9Stale 4th 4th B11th 4th External Links This section should always be included. MouseHunt Analytics Catch Rate Estimates

MouseHunt version 3.0

Since the new update various trap setup options pages are no longer correct. For example in S.S. Huntington Captain is now an Aquatic Order mouse weaker to Hydro than to Tactical, and a few mice in the Lagoon also changed their weaknesses. Since the Catch Rate Estimates tool is still using old v2 data, we can't update yet, but I'm going to put up a big notice that the articles may be out of date. -- camomiletea 22:57, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I was hoping that the changes between version 2 and 3 would be small enough not to matter. It will take some time before I'll be able to update them. -- Ralphminer 02:00, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

The CRE tool apparently has been updated. Do you have an idea when you might be able to update the articles? Thanks. -- camomiletea 05:21, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that CRE tool has been updated. I'll update the articles by the end of next week. --Ralphminer 11:42, 19 November 2010 (UTC)